Georg Elser : interrogation report Day 2: 20/11/1939
Continuation of the hearing on 20.11.1939 at 10 clock .
As I indicated yesterday, at the beginning of 1930 I joined a clock company in Meersburg as a carpenter apprentice. The owner of this firm was Rothmund, who was the former partner of the Upper Rhine Clockworks in Konstanz. The firm made the housing for table clocks, and also the housing for kitchen clocks. The internal works of these clocks were purchased from abroad, from where exactly, I do not know. The installation of the clock movements in the housing was done by Rothmund and his brother. The production works were housed in the workshop of master glazier William Matthes in Meersburg. Besides Rothmund and his brother there were 5 workers and a busy woman. Of these, two were already working in the clock manufacturing firm in Konstanz. The names of the workers and the woman are no longer remembered by me. My job with Rothmund was to cut the boards to produce the housing and reassemble the clock case. I worked with a journeyman glazier, who I believe was employed by Matthes. The name of this man is no longer known to me. I was rewarded local collective default.
In the spring of 1932 I was living in Konstanz at the Niedermann residence in Fürstenbergstraße 1. I went every day during this time by the ferry in the morning from Konstanz to Meersburg and evenings after work back from Meersburg to Konstanz. In the clock industry in Meersburg I worked from 7-12 clock and from 13 - 18 clock. Sometimes I took lunch in the workshop and sometimes in the hotel, " Hirsch" in Meersburg. Rothmund's wife and another workmate were also living in Konstanz, and they also used the ferry to and from Konstanz. On these journeys I was mostly in the company of these two.
At the time I was in a relationship with the Hilda Long, who lived in Konstanz, Hussenstraße No. unknown. I spent my time mostly with Lang. I made a sewing table and various small pieces of furniture in my leisure time for her. I had no other encounters with female persons at that time. Also, I had no close friendships with fellow workers or other persons. During this time I was always only alone with Lang.
In the spring of 1932 I was released with 4 other fellow workers of Rothmund. As far as I remember was at that time initiated a comparison method of Rothmund. The busy woman and the journeyman carpenter from Konstanz had already been released some time before for some unknown reason. I suspect that this was due to a bad business. About the further activities of the Rothmund I am not informed.
[ Journeyman carpenter with carpenter in Meersburg (spring - may 1932) ]
I immediately looked for work in Meersburg and finally, the exact time I can not specify, found work at a carpenter in Meersburg, his name not recalled, though his workshop was located next to the workshop of master glazier Matthes. In this room I worked for an estimated 4 to 5 weeks. In the main I made door frames and doors for residential construction. This work was carried out independently by me. The pay rate was also moderate. I was the only worker there. When Zimmermann received no more jobs he had no work for me, so I was discharged after 4-5 weeks. This was around May 1932.
[ Meersburg ( May-August 1932) ]
When I could not find a new job, despite my efforts, I gave up my room in Konstanz and moved to Meersburg, where I repaired furniture for people in exchange for room and board and made some remakes.
[ Odd jobs as a carpenter ( May-August 1932) ]
In May, June or July 1932 I have not known when the family turner in the Kunkel alley, house number, used to. At this time I have worked for the widow Becker, who is residing in the property of the master glazier Matthes . I was there to repair a secretary and to make a table. In further work with Frau Becker, I can not remember at the time. From Mrs. Becker, who was a good friend of turner's family, I have time to get the food. For the stay I had to pay nothing at Dreher . Then I had a family Heidorfer who were also good friends of turner's family, the apartment is no longer I recall . To repair cabinets. The apartment, that is the room I had then still held at Dreher, family Heidorfer I was at that time cared for . It occurs to me that I have a cupboard at the same time also had to repair for a family Observatory . Also in the family Dreher I had erect an old cabinet. Late July or early August 1932 I had taken a sleeping place for quick, where I had to set up their bedroom. The room at Dreher I only had therefore abandoned because me Frau Quick has provided a place to sleep at their disposal. I had there own little room. This work with Frau Quick lasted until mid-August 1932. As already mentioned, my only food and accommodation were granted free of all these people on the merits. I received a small financial compensation, but the amount of which I can not specify only for this opportunity work. With other people, I was not then in combination . The free time I also spent his time in the main, with Lang, I've visited a few times in Konstanz . Also, I was visited here and there by Lang in Meersburg. With Dannecker I had no connection.
[ Königsbronn ( August 1932 - may 1939) ]
Mid- August 1932, I returned from Meersburg to home. To add another workplace in Meersburg I had not looked after. I already had incredibly made the decision in May 1932 to return to my parents after I had been told by my mother in writing that my father was more and more booze and that he sold a field to another in order to pay his debts, which stemmed from the trade in timber and his eternal drinking sprees. From my arrival my mother was expecting an improvement in the behavior of my father. At that time I went by train to Königsbronn to my parents. There I stayed with my brother a room. My mother and my brother were very pleased by my return. My father accepted my return with indifference. I realized that my parents were heavily in debt by the timber trade of my father. The amount of debt I can not say. The debt is due in particular to the fact that my father bought wood at too high a price and could only be resold at a loss. Through my uncle Eugen Elser in Königsbronn I learned that my father always stood at the wood auctions under the influence of alcohol and this was the reason why for the high prices. My father has been drinking almost daily in the Königsbronn Area, where he had business dealings with beer and wine. The quantities I can not say . Neither my mother nor my brother could exert any influence on him. I am aware that my father has already taken in my youth very much alcohol. My mother took care of the agricultural work and my brother was a carpenter apprentice at the carpenter Sapper in Königsbronn .
[ Agriculture assistant with the parents , carpenter ( August 1932 - Spring 1936) ]
My return to Königsbronn was like before I left with my mother carrying out agricultural work. Furthermore, I had set myself a small carpenter shop in his parents' estate where I made individual pieces of furniture for different people in Königsbronn. For this I had used the tool that I used to bought me out of my merit. Here and there like before I assisted my father in the forest work, cleaning logs and sawing. Compensation I did not get for this, except board and meals free of charge as usual.
My father's drinking bouts increased more and more . The result was that the debts were higher and that he had to sell arable land repeatedly to meet his obligations. I repeatedly tried to influence my father in a favorable sense, but had no success. My father could not be influenced by anyone, even by me. His debts have been financed from the proceeds of the harvest.
My father was consistently getting home very late. When he was drunk, he has at home is always a racket and scolded about me, my mother and my brother without any reason. He always said that we are guilty, that it go down more and more. Abuse are not occurred. He has also, in contrast to earlier demolished anything.
The end of 1935 the debt had become so great that my father had to sell the property. It has the property, which in my estimation after 10 to 11000, - , 6500 , was worth RM - RM sold to the cattle dealer Maurer in Königsbronn . Maurer was always together with my father in economies where they drank together. From the proceeds of the estate of my mother received on demand 2000 - RM. The remaining amount was used by my father to pay his debts and other drinkers land. The property was then sold and purchased from the cattle dealer Maurer. The sale included an agreement that a small shed be available for my father. He still lives there . My mother had to go to Schnaitheim to live with my sister Friederike. My brother then went into Work Service and I have rented from Frau Härlen. To keep the contents of my workshop I moved everything into the Härlen’s basement. The furniture has been taken my mother to Schnaitheim. We only still had a vegetable garden, which today is owned by my parents in Königsbronn. What made my mother in Schnaitheim and what she has lived there, I do not know .
[ Apartment with the family Härlen in Königsbronn (1936-1937) ]
I was still living in the parental estate up to the spring of 1936 . I did this until I was asked to leave by the new owner Maurer. Only then did I take a room at Frau Härlen in Königsbronn. My mother had previously gone by about three months to Schnaitheim. Up to this time I still made pieces of furniture for people in Königsbronn. My father still lived on the property.
[ Journeyman carpenter with Friedrich Grupp in Königsbronn (spring - autumn 1936) ]
After I had to leave the property and could do no more odd jobs, I worked for the carpenter Grupp in Königsbronn. I was employed as a carpenter apprentice. A journeyman and an apprentice were also employed there. Even when Grupp I had to make apartment facilities. I received an hourly wage of 0.55 RM, working every day from 7-12 and 13-18 clock . In the main I amused myself at the time with music.
[ Music : flute, accordion , zither , string bass ]
I am musically inclined by nature, even during my school days I played flute and accordion. After school, I 've only played more accordion. In smaller companies I have taken care of the musical entertainment. So I've played about in 1924 in Ochsenberg at Königsbronn in a dance lesson accordion. I had no special skill. I was, as they say : an average player. I have only played by ear. Notes, I have the time not known, ie, no more than I even knew from school. The accordion I sold at the beginning of 1927, before I left Königsbronn, to a friend of mine, called Maurer of the fence Mountain, a farm near Königsbronn. This instrument, so far as I remember, I had during my work as a journeyman carpenter at a price of about 25, - can send RM from a tool factory. The money comes out of my salary , which I then gave to the part of my mother, was allowed to keep the other part for my personal needs. At what price I sold it again, I can not remember this. I any case I had the accordion very well maintained.
[ Trachtenverein "Upper Rhine Valley " ]
During my stay in Konstanz I bought a concert zither from the cabinet maker in Constance at the price of 20 RM. Where Daßler lived in Konstanz, I no longer know. I became acquainted with this in 1926 in the "Oberrheintaler" association. I joined this club in 1926 as a member. Through some acquaintances I have not been aware of this association, but, as far as I remember, I have occasionally been informed of the existence of this association. The club has held its practice evening every Saturday night at the guesthouse "Zum Kratzer" in Konstanz. Music and dance were practiced. At these intervals of entertainment the family members of the members and acquaintances were always present. The management of the exercise hours was by a man named Klingler. Where Klingler lived in Konstanz and what he was by profession I do not know anymore. He has, as far as I know, changed his apartment twice. Apart from Klingler, I also met the Daßler family from Konstanz. They had a daughter Rosa, with whom I had no relation. Rosa already had a reputation. If I am still inquiring about other families I have met then, I can still call family Stöhr (spelling of the name perhaps also different), who was credibly a writer and had two girls who were still at school. With the exception of a certain Keuterer (?) I can not remember by name any more families, which at that time were in the Trachtenverein, and which I have met.
I did not join the folklore society because of the girls. One can find girls anywhere. I had no close relationship with any girls from the club. Of course you could kiss one or the other on the way home.
In Konstanz I already took private lessons from a pure interest in music, especially the Zither, and in order to learn this instrument. I went to a music teacher who, if I was not mistaken, was called Hardegen or something like that, and paid 1.50 RM per hour, and took 25-30 hours with him. Then I changed teacher. Why I did this, I do not know exactly now. In any case, I took my zither lessons from the director of the Zither club, Stössel. It may be that I changed the moment I entered the zither club. Also with Stössel, the cost per hour was 2.0 RM, I took about 25-30 hours. Then, despite the fact that I stayed at the Zither club, I did not take any more hours since I was concerned about the money.
So it is understandable that I may have entered the Zither club at the beginning of 1933 in Königsbronn. I sought distraction in music from my domestic circumstances. The managing director of this music club was the iron founder, Heinrich Hiermann. The club was composed of 12 members and 8 members. These were: Schlosser or Dreher Fritz Huber of Konigsbronn, then about 24 or 25 years old, then Georg Elser, a large relative of mine, locksmith of Königsbronn, then my brother Leonhard, Anton Egetemeier, tailor of Königsbronn, further Paul Huber, a brother of the aforementioned Fritz Huber, two brothers Staudelmeier, my first names are not reminiscent of me, as well as three other ladies, whose name I no longer know. As far as I know, this zither club was registered with the police in Königsbronn. The club was held weekly on Friday or Saturday in the restaurant "Hecht" in Königsbronn. These were held in the next room of the same hotel. At the Klubabenden only music was played. Here and there in the Hösselsaal in Königsbronn were organized by this club concert and dance show. I have regularly participated in these events and club nights. The concert zither is now with Georg Schmauder, Schnaitheim, Benzstr. 18. I have handed the instrument over to him for safekeeping. In the spring of 1939, I sold the string bass in Schnaitheim to one of my acquaintances for 80 RM. The sale was made because I had no more use for this string bass. I had borrowed from my savings in 1934 in Schwenningen, to buy the string base, or else from some kind of music - I can not tell you at this time - after this time the zither club has organized dance music, to which the bass player was subjected. I was given lessons from a playing field in Heidenheim. I can not recall the first name and the flat of this forest. This uninhabited forest has been recommended to me by a member of the Zither club as a stroking instructor, who is also no longer known to me.
I was working for the group of carpenters until the autumn of 1936. In the spring of 1936 he had to prepare desks for the Wehrmacht, which had to be delivered at a certain time. For this reason, Grupp also started to work with him. After completion of this delivery, I was involved in the construction of housing equipment and the installation of window frames in a rebuilding. In the autumn of 1936, I resigned myself to Grupp, even though the remuneration was not too small for me, and he always wanted to teach me, although he did not have my abilities. I am divorced in the good of Grupp. I therefore terminated at Grupp for the reasons stated, because I was of the specific view that I would soon find work again.
[ Else Härlen ]
At first, in the basement of my housewife Härlen, I set up a makeshift workshop with my material, where, on the orders of Frau Greta Rose, I had made a doll's house and for the householder Härlen I made kitchen chairs. The contract for the manufacture of kitchen cabinet and kitchen chairs had already been given to me by Frau Härlen during the time I was still working for Grupp. For the dollhouse I received about 5 RM. The production cost for the chairs for the woman Härlen was my rent. The cupboard was not completed by me as it was refused by the husband of Frau Härlen in December 1936 from some unknown reason.
With the married woman Härlen I have since the spring of 1936 entertained a love affair, whether her husband at the time had knowledge of this, I do not know. Frau Härlen was divorced in the fall of 1938 for this reason. I myself was a witness in court and have, as well as the woman Härlen, refused to testify.
[ Laborer at the Armaturenfabrik Heidenheim ( December 1936 - March 1939 ) ]
On 29/12/1936 I joined the company Waldenmaier, a fittings factory in Heidenheim, as a laborer. I came there through the mediation of the foreman Wilhelm Hermann, who was then living in Itzelberg at Königsbronn and whom I had met in mid-December 1936 in the " White Horse Inn " in Königsbronn. Hermann was personally known to me through his frequent stays in Königsbronn. I told him my conditions at that time, and he made me the proposal to enter into the valve manufacturer's plant in Heidenheim as a laborer. Whether I had already looked around for a job as a skilled carpenter, I do not remember exactly. But I think I had found nothing of the kind, so I accepted the unskilled work. As far as I remember, Hermann offered to check with his company first, where he was a foreman, if something is available. After a few days he gave me the go ahead to introduce myself. I went either by train or by bike to Heidenheim to introduce myself and a day or two later I started as a laborer in the fettling shop, where Hermann also worked. I was told I must do the dirty work of a cast plasterer before I can serve in better work. In fact, I had only about half a year of work there, until the summer of 1937. Then I came to the shipping department, where I was especially busy with checking the material inputs for completeness, etc. I did this activity until March 1939.
[ Apartment with their parents in the Wiesenstrasse 4 in Königsbronn ( 1937-1939 ) ] Wiesetrasse 4 Königsbronn
As long as I have been at the Waldenmaier company in Heidenheim I have always lived in Königsbronn. First, until the spring of 1937, not with the woman Härlen, but probably after her husband learned how I felt about his wife. Then I went to my parents, who had in the meantime bought half of a double house, which was, however, much smaller than our previous house. I lived in a garret of my parents house until May 1939 until I went to Schnaitheim. Also my workshop that I had set up temporarily in the house of Härlen I removed and re-established temporarily in a basement room of my parents' house.
I went to work in Heidenheim everyday by the train in bad weather or in warmer weather by bike. In the evening I returned the same way. When I rode the bike I was alone. I had no constant companionship. When I took the train, I saw in the railway carriage almost the same faces every day, but was not remotely connected to any of these people. In the factory for the whole year I worked there I had no close workmates. I was generally known as quiet person.
In the fettling shop I earned 0.58 RM 0.62 RM per hour. I admit that I would have earned more as a skilled carpenter by working somewhere else. But I had no interest to earn more, not only because I liked the work. Perhaps I deserved more, but I would have no benefit from any amount over a 24 RM weekly wage, as the sum would go in alimony.
[ Maria Schmauder ]
I spent my free time making music as before. I was still a member of the zither club. I was also busy in the workshop at home making an intricately designed box. I made this for a certain Maria Schmauder from Schnaitheim who I had met in the factory. The acquaintance with Maria Schmauder dates from the time I was still living in the house of Frau Härlen in Königsbronn. Initially I saw little of Maria, however when I lived in Schnaitheim, I saw her often of course. In the summer of 1937, Frau Härlen, who had meanwhile been separated from her husband before the official divorce, moved to Jebenhausen near Göppingen, Esslingen, where she is still works in a wool factory and lives in a factory house. The relationship with Maria Schmauder was not very close. We got along well, we have kissed, but to this day I have not had intercourse with her.
Thus passed the year 1937 and a large part of 1938, without something happening or changing in my life. In the shipping department at Waldenmaier nobody I was transferred to my work except the superintendent grains. I had two more people added. One of these two was an older married man named Staud. The other one was two years younger than me, whose name I can not remember at the moment. He is the one I sold my bike for16 RM, in December 1938 or January 1939. With these two I came out good. Here and there one of the workers from the workshops has helped in the shipping department, namely when the machine was broken for a short time.
Farms I visited at the time only for the purpose of taking lunch. From 1937 to early 1938, I took the food in the hotel " to the slaughterhouse " in Heidenheim. I had a specific position there, originally on the table right at the entrance and later I moved to the table at the rear right corner. My table companions were workers from the valve manufacturer's plant, which I did not know by name, but only by sight. The place is just laying ground that, as my place at the table was the right of the entrance often busy at my arrival. In the evening I never went to this hotel. From the beginning of January, I took my lunch in the economy, " King Karl" . The only reason for this change is because I had a desire for better food, and the selection is greater in the hotel, " King Karl " than in the hotel " to the slaughterhouse ." I had no specific position in the economy, " King Karl". I was rarely involved in conversations while taking lunch. I rarely visited this tavern in the evening to take my supper before I went home. Except for the tavern, " pike " where the Königsbronn zither club held evenings, I have not frequented at evenings any other restaurants in Heidenheim, or Königsbronn .
[ Special department at the Armaturenfabrik Heidenheim ]
My activities in the fittings factory in Heidenheim were as follows:
In the factory in Heidenheim, upon my entry into this factory, there was a so-called "special department", in which powder granules were pressed and projectiles were produced. The manager of this special department was Koch. I do not know how many workers are employed in the special department. The workforce of the factory consists of about 1000 men. The powder is pressed in a building outside the factory. The building in which the projectiles are made is located within the factory. For this special department many samples of fuses and detonators were received by me for the company and passed on to the individual managers in the special department after the checking of the consignment.
The receipt and the correctness of these items was booked by me in the dispatch department. The submission to the individual managers was not recorded, that is, was not done until autumn 1938. In the fuse department was a newly employed master and guard, Bauder jun and sen, and the son of the manager, Koch.
The managers, Neuer and Schütz, were employed in the special department where the detonators were assembled. To Neuer I had to deliver the threaded screws, cardboard rings and cellulosic sack. It was not just a question of samples, but also ordered material that was needed there. To Schütz I had to deliver coil springs, needle pieces, slotted nuts, ignition needles, wooden pestles, springs and bolts. Here, too, it was not just patterns, but also ordered material. The manager Bauder (Jun. and sen) and Koch were in the and revolver room. There I only delivered tools, machine spare parts and the like, which had been ordered there and received on the basis of the order. In the Powder Press Division, I had to deliver to crates and barrels containing powders to the worker. The name of this worker is not known to me at the moment. There was no manager there. From there I also had to carry empty boxes and barrels back into the shipping department. These empty crates and tins were taken from me to a room on the ground floor, where they were received by a worker. For the delivery of the ordered material, two assistants were assigned to me to help.
With the manager or a worker who was employed in the Special Department above, I was not aware of any friends there. I knew these people only by sight. Also I knew no one in the special department who assembled detonators. I have never watched these being assembled. This was forbidden by the management. I only delivered the material I received to the Special Department and left immediately.
Before I began work in the fittings factory in Heidenheim I was not aware that there is such a special department. Hermann made no mention of this to me. I first became aware of work in the Special Department when I was busy in the fettling shop. I once observed, in the factory yard a handcart for so-called blanks, which are the raw pressed parts for match heads, were transported from one department to the other. These parts I saw then for the first time . Whether I once asked and then had explained to me the purpose for which these blanks were used, or if I realized after some time the purpose, I can not remember. Furthermore, I have not inquired more about the work of the Special Department while I was busy in the fettling shop. It was only through my work in the shipping department that I learned the details of the work of the Special Department. I was transferred to the shipping department by the management without my intervention and without the intervention of another person.
Although I was not allowed to see how detonators have been mounted, different parts that have gone through my fingers. E.g. The needles for the ignition, and, moreover, drawings on which the exact measurements for the control contacts were given. I have never seen drawings of a finished or half-finished detonator, or of certain parts. How an igniter works, I have not experienced at the time and do not know yet. This is certainly complicated.
Until the decision of my action in the autumn of 1938, I did not take any parts or powder in the factory.
The powder presses set up in our factory processed both granular powder which we received into pressed powder plates for our own needs for the manufacture of the detonators, as well as apparently for other factories. It was at least that much more granulated powder came in when we processed, and pressed powder was released from us to different places.
Up to the summer of 1937 there was only one man with 2 and later 3 to 4 assistants for the input and output in the shipping department of the factory. After the plant was enlarged and the inputs and outputs increased, this work has not been completed by the previous staff alone. Therefore the responsibility for the input and output was separated. The imports I had to control with my already mentioned assistant, the exports were done by the previous head of the dispatch department, Koch. The names of his assistants do not occur to me at the moment. I was only in contact with Koch, and I was not friends with him.
I decided to carry out my act in the autumn of 1938.
Throughout my life I have not read much. Novels Books, and other books, I have not read at all. Once I read half a story in a newspaper. It was too stupid for me. In technical literature I have only read carpenter’s building and furniture newspapers.
[ Health status]
Regarding my illnesses, injuries and my general state of health, etc., I would like to state the following:
At the age of about 5 or 6 years, at least before the school, I had a childhood disease. I do not know exactly whether it is red spots (measles) or scarlet fever. Besides, as a child, I was sick more often. I had mainly and frequently suffered from febrile diseases and occasionally skin rashes. Even during the school years, the same diseases still occurred. I do not know what this was about, I can only remember that I often had a headache.
The complaints I mentioned earlier, during the period of my activity in the Iron Turning, were also mainly expressed in headaches.
Even in the later period to this day, I had more often than others with febrile illnesses, which were connected with headaches. I have never been seriously ill. I also believe that I am fully healthy right now. I have never observed a sex disorder or any signs of it.
I almost completely lost the little finger of my right hand as a little boy at the age of seven, bringing this finger between the gears of the translation on my father's whetstone. I have had no other serious injuries. But just like me: At the age of about thirty I fell from a tree in my father's estate. I broke a rib. I did not go to the hospital at the time. I did not suffer any further injuries in this accident. Another case: In the spring of 1939 (perhaps in May) a large stone fell on my feet in the stone quarry. This resulted in a fracture of the left forefoot. I was ill for 9 weeks and was in medical treatment for that long. I did not go to the hospital.
It is not known to me whether my grandparents or other relatives have died of a particular illness or committed suicide. I have not heard of it.
Apart from the occasional, but rare beer-sipping of the glass of my father in early youth, I drank my first glass of beer perhaps at the age of ten. However, this was quite rare until the age of 16 or 17. In my whole life, I was drunk only three times. Not even when I've been working regularly in the workshop did I drink beer every day. I've never drunk more than six glasses of beer. With this quantum I am intoxicated. Wine or liquor I have drunk very rarely. Maybe at the age of 24 I started to smoke. After 2 years I became again non-smoking. During this time I smoked about 20 cigarettes in the week. Since then I have not smoked any more. I do not know of any other drugs.
The first knowledge of the process of procreation I received, as I recall, was mediated by a schoolmate. Up to the age of 22, however, I had no sexual relationship. The term masturbation is only known to me in theory. I never undertook any trials of a sexual nature. During my stay in Konstanz, I had my first sexual intercourse with a certain Brunhilde, of whom I only remember the first name. Also my further experiences in this area fall during my stay in Konstanz. The Brunhilde followed a certain Anna, then the Mathilde Niedermann, then the Hilda Lang, and later, during my stay in Konigsbronn, my local housewife Härlen, who now lives in Esslingen, as I already mentioned.
I had no sexual intercourse with the other girls with whom I occasionally maintained a relationship.
[ Son Manfred ]
The intercourse with Mathilde Niedermann had consequences. At the time, when she thought she was in the second month of pregnancy, we were called an address in Geneva, where this would be terminated. (I do not remember the address.) Together, Mathilde and I, went to Geneva. Mathilde was examined and it was found that she was already in the fourth month and an intervention could no longer be made. This investigation was then carried out by a woman. We did not have to pay for it. One night we stayed in Geneva and drove back to Konstanz the next day. I have borne the travel expenses. The child was born. It's a boy, Manfred. Mathilde Niedermann married later. As he is today, I do not know. I am deducted from the weekly wages for weekly payments as soon as they exceed 24 marks. The child Manfred I have seen up to the age of about half a year, but since then no more. I always had the intention of taking the boy to my house, or my mother.
Some perverse forms of sexual intercourse are not even theoretically known to me.
The transcript of this portion of the hearing was taken from the folk language of the accused.
My mother is strictly religious, my father much less. Both, like myself and all siblings, are Protestant. In all the family with us there is no Protestant clergyman. My mother always prayed with me as a child. When I grew a bit bigger, I continued this for myself, and I did not always pray, except I often prayed the Lord's Prayer before falling asleep. Personally, that is, from my heart, I have never prayed to God in my own words. I never took my deed or the wish of the success into my prayer. As a child, I was sometimes taken to church by my parents on Sundays, later I went some times alone, but finally less and less often. Only in the course of this year did I go back to the church more often, to the present day perhaps 30 times since the beginning of the year. I have recently gone to a Catholic church more often on a working day, if there is no Protestant church there, to pray the Lord's Prayer. In my opinion, it does not matter whether this is done in an evangelical or Catholic church. I admit that these frequent church visits and this frequent prayer were because my deed concerned me inwardly, when I certainly would not have prayed so much if I had not prepared or planned the act. After a prayer I am always more relaxed.
When I am asked whether I regard the act I committed as sin in the sense of the Protestant doctrine, I would say, "in a deeper sense, no!"
[ Prevent greater bloodshed ]
I believe in a further life of the soul after death, and I also believed that I would go to heaven if I had the opportunity to prove by my future life that I wanted good. I wanted to prevent even greater bloodshed through my act.
I never used personal acquaintance with an evangelical clergyman. Even with our priest in Konigsbronn, who confirmed me, I did not feel any contact afterwards. We have never written.
With good Catholics, besides the Hilda Lang in Konstanz, I mentioned, I had no close contact with the Catholic Church during the time of our acquaintance. My later visits to Catholic churches were not encouraged by anyone.
Jehovah's Witnesses and other sects , I only know her by name. As far as I know, my mother is next to the church or in a prayer meeting . But I was never with and also not know any details of it.
My parents were and are completely apolitical. I remember that my father went to some elections only when he was called. What he chose, I do not know. When I came to the age of choice, he did not influence me anyway. I think my mother probably went to the poll, but she never said anything to whom she gave her vote.
My father did not belong to either a party or any club. I cannot remember the fact that I once heard my father politicize. Before, my parents had subscribed to the "Grenzboten", our local paper. This newspaper still exists today. For years, however, no newspaper has been read in my parents' house. I believe because of the money.
Apart from the already mentioned furniture and construction paper newspaper, I have not read a newspaper regularly. Wherever I went, in inns, etc., I just read what was there. The "Swabian Tagwacht" (Württembergische Sozialdemokratische Zeitung) is probably still in my memory, in my homeland, but I have never read it. I can not remember the name "Süddeutsche Arbeiterzeitung" (KPD).
Personally, I have never been politically minded. After reaching the age of choice, I have always chosen the KPD, because I thought it was a workers party that would work for the workers. But I have never been a member of this party, because I thought it was enough if I gave my vote. I have never participated in any kind of actions, such as handing out leaflets, throwing papers, demonstrations and smuggling. I never worked in the works council during my entire professional career. I was a member of the Union of the Workers' Union, because this was the union of the workers of my profession and because I needed to be a member of this association. With the exception of a later period, I have never participated in party political meetings.
In 1928 or 1929 when I was in Konstanz I joined the RFB. But I was only a paying member, because I never had a uniform or was I a functionary. All in all, I was only three times during my whole RFB membership in a political assembly of the KPD. I came into the RFB through the constant persuasion of a workmate named Fiebig, who then, like myself, worked in the clockmaking factory in Konstanz and lived with me for some time together in the Inselgasse in Konstanz.
When I am asked if I have known that the KPD had the purpose and the goal of establishing a dictatorship or a dictatorship of the proletariat in Germany, I must say that it is not impossible that I have heard such a thing. But I have not thought of anything. I thought that the votes of the communists had to be strengthened by a vote cast, and that the party could do more for the workforce. I have never heard of a violent upheaval.
I have never been interested in the program of the KPD. I cannot, therefore, state how in the case of the victory of the KPD would affect the economic situation. In the meetings it was merely said that more pay should be paid, better housing should be done, and similar things. The presentation of these demands has sufficed for me to orient myself towards communism.
My financial situation is in order. For most of my life I had to work to earn a living. I have no assets and expected none, as the property of my parents is heavily covered with debt. I personally have no debt. From the District Court of Konstanz about 9 years ago I was to make a payment of 45 RM monthly for the maintenance of my son Manfred. Of course, this payment to this day I have been able to afford completely, thereby a considerable debt has grown . How much it is today, I do not want to know.
I'm not a criminal . A criminal case has never been brought against me.
Interrogation is interrupted by 20 clock .
signed Schmidt, signed Kappler, signed Seibold .
Source: the Bundesarchiv Koblenz, signature R 22/3100
Interrogation Day 3-coming soon